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Cryptor69 · 24-06-2004, 05:56 AM

As I start to learn more and more about Lightwave and 3D I read alot of articles on these topics on the net. From alot of the articles I can't help it but get the feeling that Lightwave has been loosing its edge over the other 3D packages.

So my question to you guys is; Do you feel that some of the other leading 3D packages have been making huge advancements during the last 2 years or so and lightwave did not improove much ?

The reason why I aks is 'couse I still have 2 weeks to exchange my lightwave if I choose to, and I just hate this sinking "ATARI Syndome" feeling I get when I get the impression that once again I "ally" myself with a superior products that unfortunatelly seems to be doomed over the long run.

So..tell me I'am wrong.

Cryptor69 · 24-06-2004, 08:24 AM

Also, How would you rate the modellers for the below soft ?
What would you say is the very best one for realistic models ( not taking into account price ).

Lightwave 8
Maya 6
3d Studio Max 6
Softimage XSI 4

These seem to be the top ones, what do you guys think ?

Also XSI seems to have plugins for both maya and 3ds max but not lightwave, why ? ( this is one example ).

kumar · 24-06-2004, 01:49 PM

Interesting idea you have,, cant help it as more and more development is being made and softwares are being upgraded to killer levels.

Ok, i started with LW 7.5c and now have Max 5.1,, along the way i have tried Maya PLE and XSI EXP versions.

Ok i have no time to really explore maya or XSI as they have a higher learning curve,,, now i uninstalled them. My best advice is to try out the free versions of the software and see which one fits you. Remember its not the software that makes you good,,, its the time and effort you put into it.

You can find almost all free versions of the different packages..,, LWDiscovery Edition (Think its no longer available for download)
GMax
Maya PLE 5
XSI EXP

As for a good modeller most will agree LW beats the competition hands down.... Look at the work Phillip and some of the people have done... Hehe not to brag but we beat the Maya guys at modelling...

But if you are into Nurbs Modelling and so on Maya or some other package will be a chioce as LW do not have Nurbs or the full subD.

Cchristensen · 24-06-2004, 03:30 PM

It is interesting you mention Atari. I personally have always seen Newtek following the Commodore path. In the infancy of the PC, Commodore had cutting edge products for their time - The Vic-20, Commodore 64, and Amiga. Their marketing sucked but the computers were so good they sold like crazy. It seemed they were set to dominate the PC market in the future. But around the mid-80s Commodore's R&D seemed to be running at a snails pace and their terrible marketing was starting to hurt them. At the same time the IBM-compatibles started taking over the mainstream market and Macs were growing in the schools, as well as the design and publishing fields. Eventually Commodore and the Amiga disappeared into obscurity.

Time will tell if they are able to change course. Jack Tramiel was CEO of both Atari and Commodore in his career so if you ever hear he is involved with Newtek run for the hills.

As for the best software. That is always subjective. If you look at the winners in Expose 2, only one is from Lightwave. Good results are possible in any package with a skilled user.

kennez · 24-06-2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Cryptor69
Lightwave 8
Maya 6
3d Studio Max 6
Softimage XSI 4

These seem to be the top ones, what do you guys think ?

You missed one - Cinema 4D R8.5.

Personally I love Lightwave, but I also use Maya and Cinema 4D 6. Second on my list would be Cinema, as I like the interface, and it has an incredible renderer. I cannot speak for R8.5, but R6 is amazingly fast.

I still prefer Lightwave though, as the new character animation tools are great, especially when combined with a specialist character animation software like Messiah:Animate or Motionbuilder.

For modelling, I like Lightwave, and I actually like the fact that the modelling is done in a seperate app. The interface is cleaner without all the animation stuff getting in the way. For realistic models, I think it really depends more on your talent than the software.

Cryptor69 · 25-06-2004, 04:53 AM

o.k. at least this reinforces me in my previous opinion that Lightwave modeler is the best ( right now ). I guess only time will tell how this unravels.

Where can I find this "Expose 2 " ?

R4s1n · 25-06-2004, 06:17 AM

Go to Cgtalk.com and at the top of the site there are two links ..Expose 1 and Expose 2.
im sure they have their own website but i can't seem to think of what it is.

Fallenswordsman · 25-06-2004, 06:43 AM

I use both XSI and Lightwave. I have to say I really like XSI but I'm much more used to Lightwave. In terms of realistic modellers that really depends on the skill of the artist involved. I've seen stuff done in things like Blender or Metasequoia which will make Maya users turn white! Really, don't concern yourself too much with the name of the tool - if you learn how to use the tool well, results will follow. But to answer your other question, yes, I think Lightwave is falling behind somewhat. There are still some nice tools in XSI that I would love to have in Lightwave.

Just on an end note, take a look at the competition forums for both ourselves and the Mayans over at SimplyMaya. That just about demonstrates what I'm trying to get at - its really the artist behind the tool that counts not the tool itself. But it is nice to have optional whizzy tools at your disposal

Cryptor69 · 25-06-2004, 10:29 AM

As far as I can tell none of the expose 2 winners used Lightwave. Not that this really means anything.

Fallenswordsman · 25-06-2004, 11:36 AM

You should find some Lightwave works within Expose 2 itself (when it gets published) as there were in Expose 1. For instance, Philip's Stratocaster is featured in Expose 2.

Cchristensen · 25-06-2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Cryptor69
As far as I can tell none of the expose 2 winners used Lightwave. Not that this really means anything.

There was one winner and if I remember right is was some sort of futuristic vehicle.

neone · 27-06-2004, 03:49 PM

interesting question

i'm asking myself the same question.
I'm still learning lightwave and i don't know any other programs so i can't answer it.
If you look at the price the answer is clear though. Lightwave beats them all.

But lately i have the impression that lightwave isn't that flexible as i had hoped. But then again...this could be the case in every program so don't take my word on it

.

Cryptor69 · 28-06-2004, 05:55 AM

I'am happy to say that the more I use Lightwave the more I like it, it sorta "grows" on you.

To be honest, IMHO, the price is not important and really does not play a role in the 3D package competition. The only thing that counts is the quality of work that can be achieved on them.

Zeeman · 08-07-2004, 08:47 PM

Well, i think price is also a big factor, then again, LW is an amazing prog. it fits me and the way I work, i tried Max but it seemed a bit harder. I personally prefer LW. Love the interface!

Cryptor69 · 09-07-2004, 05:09 AM

I love it too, imho though price is not an issue. Ultimatelly the package that produces ( well helps to produce ) the best quality work will rule all.

24-06-2004, 05:56 AM	#1
Cryptor69 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13	The ATARI Syndrome As I start to learn more and more about Lightwave and 3D I read alot of articles on these topics on the net. From alot of the articles I can't help it but get the feeling that Lightwave has been loosing its edge over the other 3D packages. So my question to you guys is; Do you feel that some of the other leading 3D packages have been making huge advancements during the last 2 years or so and lightwave did not improove much ? The reason why I aks is 'couse I still have 2 weeks to exchange my lightwave if I choose to, and I just hate this sinking "ATARI Syndome" feeling I get when I get the impression that once again I "ally" myself with a superior products that unfortunatelly seems to be doomed over the long run. So..tell me I'am wrong.

24-06-2004, 08:24 AM	#2
Cryptor69 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13	Also, How would you rate the modellers for the below soft ? What would you say is the very best one for realistic models ( not taking into account price ). Lightwave 8 Maya 6 3d Studio Max 6 Softimage XSI 4 These seem to be the top ones, what do you guys think ? Also XSI seems to have plugins for both maya and 3ds max but not lightwave, why ? ( this is one example ). Last edited by Cryptor69; 24-06-2004 at 08:29 AM.

24-06-2004, 03:30 PM	#4
Cchristensen Full Access Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 250	It is interesting you mention Atari. I personally have always seen Newtek following the Commodore path. In the infancy of the PC, Commodore had cutting edge products for their time - The Vic-20, Commodore 64, and Amiga. Their marketing sucked but the computers were so good they sold like crazy. It seemed they were set to dominate the PC market in the future. But around the mid-80s Commodore's R&D seemed to be running at a snails pace and their terrible marketing was starting to hurt them. At the same time the IBM-compatibles started taking over the mainstream market and Macs were growing in the schools, as well as the design and publishing fields. Eventually Commodore and the Amiga disappeared into obscurity. Time will tell if they are able to change course. Jack Tramiel was CEO of both Atari and Commodore in his career so if you ever hear he is involved with Newtek run for the hills. As for the best software. That is always subjective. If you look at the winners in Expose 2, only one is from Lightwave. Good results are possible in any package with a skilled user. Last edited by Cchristensen; 24-06-2004 at 03:35 PM.

25-06-2004, 06:17 AM	#7
R4s1n Full Access Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Manchester, PA Posts: 1,319	Go to Cgtalk.com and at the top of the site there are two links ..Expose 1 and Expose 2. im sure they have their own website but i can't seem to think of what it is. __________________ Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. What Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4.

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24-06-2004, 01:49 PM	#3
kumar Full Access Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Singapore, Posts: 913	Interesting idea you have,, cant help it as more and more development is being made and softwares are being upgraded to killer levels. Ok, i started with LW 7.5c and now have Max 5.1,, along the way i have tried Maya PLE and XSI EXP versions. Ok i have no time to really explore maya or XSI as they have a higher learning curve,,, now i uninstalled them. My best advice is to try out the free versions of the software and see which one fits you. Remember its not the software that makes you good,,, its the time and effort you put into it. You can find almost all free versions of the different packages..,, LWDiscovery Edition (Think its no longer available for download) GMax Maya PLE 5 XSI EXP As for a good modeller most will agree LW beats the competition hands down.... Look at the work Phillip and some of the people have done... Hehe not to brag but we beat the Maya guys at modelling... But if you are into Nurbs Modelling and so on Maya or some other package will be a chioce as LW do not have Nurbs or the full subD.

25-06-2004, 04:53 AM	#6
Cryptor69 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13	o.k. at least this reinforces me in my previous opinion that Lightwave modeler is the best ( right now ). I guess only time will tell how this unravels. Where can I find this "Expose 2 " ?

25-06-2004, 06:43 AM	#8
Fallenswordsman Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,702	I use both XSI and Lightwave. I have to say I really like XSI but I'm much more used to Lightwave. In terms of realistic modellers that really depends on the skill of the artist involved. I've seen stuff done in things like Blender or Metasequoia which will make Maya users turn white! Really, don't concern yourself too much with the name of the tool - if you learn how to use the tool well, results will follow. But to answer your other question, yes, I think Lightwave is falling behind somewhat. There are still some nice tools in XSI that I would love to have in Lightwave. Just on an end note, take a look at the competition forums for both ourselves and the Mayans over at SimplyMaya. That just about demonstrates what I'm trying to get at - its really the artist behind the tool that counts not the tool itself. But it is nice to have optional whizzy tools at your disposal

25-06-2004, 10:29 AM	#9
Cryptor69 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13	As far as I can tell none of the expose 2 winners used Lightwave. Not that this really means anything.

25-06-2004, 11:36 AM	#10
Fallenswordsman Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,702	You should find some Lightwave works within Expose 2 itself (when it gets published) as there were in Expose 1. For instance, Philip's Stratocaster is featured in Expose 2.

27-06-2004, 03:49 PM	#12
neone Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 102	interesting question i'm asking myself the same question. I'm still learning lightwave and i don't know any other programs so i can't answer it. If you look at the price the answer is clear though. Lightwave beats them all. But lately i have the impression that lightwave isn't that flexible as i had hoped. But then again...this could be the case in every program so don't take my word on it .

28-06-2004, 05:55 AM	#13
Cryptor69 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13	I'am happy to say that the more I use Lightwave the more I like it, it sorta "grows" on you. To be honest, IMHO, the price is not important and really does not play a role in the 3D package competition. The only thing that counts is the quality of work that can be achieved on them.

08-07-2004, 08:47 PM	#14
Zeeman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 460	Well, i think price is also a big factor, then again, LW is an amazing prog. it fits me and the way I work, i tried Max but it seemed a bit harder. I personally prefer LW. Love the interface!

09-07-2004, 05:09 AM	#15
Cryptor69 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13	I love it too, imho though price is not an issue. Ultimatelly the package that produces ( well helps to produce ) the best quality work will rule all.