[mtmckinley]

The last few challenges have seen very few entries, in my opinion. I just thought I'd ask what you folks would like to see for future challenges? What would get you excited to actually join in if you haven't before?

Is it the challenge themes?

You don't like the prizes offered?

Two months isn't long enough? (:p)

Something else?

[Fallenswordsman]

Hi Mike:

I've loved the Challenges I've taken part in so far - they really are a fantastic way of pushing yourself to the limits and I would recommend them to anyone to have a go at.

Where we are failing: Okay, I have a few ideas of why people may not be entering so many challenges.

1) Challenge fatigue: I had a go at two challenges on the trot - you end up getting pretty tired at that point because they can be fairly intensive. Its okay if you have plenty of free time, but sometimes it can be a push if you're juggling commitments. Having said that, I think 2 months should be ample time for people to get a challenge in. It taxes your abilities with a deadline - too long and people will drift away. But the thing is, the Simplylightwave group doesn't have that many people posting regularly in the first place - once a few of us get challenge fatigue, then that will reduce the number of entries dramatically.

2) Not enough publicity: Every day I come here I see people coming to these forums and joining up. There is a new name every day - the thing is, on the title page, there is nothing that says "Hey, go to the challenge forum and win some serious wonga!" I didn't even realise it myself for a while and I'm a fairly regular poster. If you have more of a presence on the main site rather than having the challenge tucked away in the forums, then I think more people will sit up and take interest.

3) Lack of second/third prize. Lets face it, there was a bit of griping a few challenges ago with "controversial" winners. Here, it is a case of winner takes all - there may be some fantastic entries and people put a lot of effort into these challenges - a LOT of effort over two months. Heck, when I'm doing challenges, they pretty much take up most of my free time. When people come away without anything, maybe they feel cheated? After a couple of these where they spend all this time and come away with nothing then maybe they just give up and stop entering. I think maybe splitting the main prize between three people - first prize of course getting the most wonga may be a bit more fair.

Just my tuppance worth - I could be right, I could be wrong but that's how I see things.

[quaoar]

Yup, more presence on the main page would be nice. I know I just started re-posting recently so I have no real say in the matter, but I think Fallen has hit it on the head. I look forward to the next challenge.

how about 2 kinds of challenges? I for one stay away from animation like the plague but I love modeling,( and I don't mean on the runway), and I'm sure I'm not the only one who is like this and vice versa. We know that in the 3d industry it is very very rare that an animator will model his own character for animation purposes unless he works freelance.

So maybe rotate the challenges.... 1 challenge- animation and 1-challenge- modeling. That way no one gets burned out by competing in back to back challenges (unless they want to..)

[mtmckinley]

(This is kinda responding to all 3 threads and the comments I've received so far)

At the moment we do kind of have a first and 2nd place prize in the Normal and Newbie category. We cant really afford 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for both categories, except maybe just to mention them as "honorable mentions". Which is lame.

I could, however, see doing away with categories and then doing more of a traditional 1st, 2nd, and 3rd lineup.

As for the themes, i personally think they are pretty varied. Being a game artist myself, I'd LOVE to just make them all game art contests, haha. But i realize not everyone does that kind of stuff. But perhaps they are too varied? Maybe I need to stick with modeling/texturing challenges for the most part with maybe an animation or something else thrown in now and then rather than trying to do something different every time?

Perhaps the challenges are too long? The reason why some of the themes are a bit more challenging (the transformer, for example) is that you have two whole months to do it. Maybe 1 month challenges with simpler themes, (but, as a consequence, with smaller prizes) would work?

One of the reasons we went to a cash grand prize as opposed to hardware and such is that due to the international, world-wide nature of those who enter these challenges, we've had difficulty actually getting the prizes to some people in the past due to their being in some rather hard to reach places. Money however can be transferred fairly simply. And then the winners can of course spend it as they wish.

One possibility might be a prize offered but with the warning that depending on the availibility of the prize to the region of the winner's location, a money substitute may be sent instead? Of course, some folks would be upset I'm sure if they enter for a cool video card only to find they get the money instead... although they could then go use that money for the card, but I digress.

I agree that a bit more noticeability on the site could be cool.

Thoughts?

[cgrein]

Here's my suggestion:

Keep the 2 month time frame.

Keep the normal and newbie categories
(maybe with an easier theme for the newbie
and one more complex for the normal)

Split the $400 prize:
$200 for the normal entry moderators choose
$150 for the normal entry members of the forums choose
(if both members and mods choose the same entry
the winner takes $350)

$50 for newbie category winner (moderators will choose)
(in addition to the 2 Simply DVDs)

[admiralbcd]

I'm quite happy with the challenge area, I have only entered once so far for several reasons.
I've only been around a year, and the last comps were a bit outta my league. dunno anything about gamemodelling, and have very little experience in animating. I've also been very busy with the McLaren tut.....

[Fallenswordsman]

Just to touch on a few points raised, Mike:

Originally posted by mtmckinley At the moment we do kind of have a first and 2nd place prize in the Normal and Newbie category. We cant really afford 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for both categories, except maybe just to mention them as "honorable mentions". Which is lame.

Agreed - I think the Norm and Newbie categories work well as it gives people with a lesser ability to have a go. Maybe not a second and third prize in each category but maybe a second prize might be nice if and only if we get enough people entering - otherwise it would be crazy. I remember the old challenges where there wasn't even a first prize if sufficient numbers of people didn't enter

As for the themes, i personally think they are pretty varied. Being a game artist myself, I'd LOVE to just make them all game art contests, haha. But i realize not everyone does that kind of stuff. But perhaps they are too varied? Maybe I need to stick with modeling/texturing challenges for the most part with maybe an animation or something else thrown in now and then rather than trying to do something different every time?

I think for something like this, you need to take a good hard look at the numbers of people competing per type of competition. Maybe it would even be worth setting up a poll to gauge interest in each type of challenge, whether it be animation or modelling or scene building. It is nice to have variation though as maybe people will tire of just modelling challenges the whole time.

Perhaps the challenges are too long? The reason why some of the themes are a bit more challenging (the transformer, for example) is that you have two whole months to do it. Maybe 1 month challenges with simpler themes, (but, as a consequence, with smaller prizes) would work?

Maybe, but I still think 2 months is sufficient. It takes me a week to do the planning stage and getting an idea together alone! That would only leave three weeks for the rest. But maybe it is worth trying shorter challenges or maybe break up long challenges with shorter ones to give people a break. Admittedly 2 months can be a bit of a long slog for some though.

One of the reasons we went to a cash grand prize as opposed to hardware and such is that due to the international, world-wide nature of those who enter these challenges, we've had difficulty actually getting the prizes to some people in the past due to their being in some rather hard to reach places. Money however can be transferred fairly simply. And then the winners can of course spend it as they wish.

Agreed, everyone likes wonga!

Keep up the good work though, Mike - I think the Challenges are still excellent,.

[NoStr0m0]

How about a small series of challenges that cover all the things done before.

Let's say we begin with modeling a high(er) poly mech. Just modeling, nothing else. The next step would be to texture it, which would be a new challenge, then animation/rigs, then props, character (every mech needs a pilot, every pilot needs a pet etc.) then environment/scene setup and render. And of course, the winners of each challenge will have their models/textures... chosen for the next stage. At the end we could end up with quite a nice thing.

We could also have, at least for this type of challenge, a smaller time frame, let's say a month, but it could be smaller for the more experienced guys out there.

Or we could have a very quick challenge, of one-two weeks where we have to do specific tasks. It's not my idea, I've seen it on a romanian forum. Well, the prizes there are not that great (technically speaking they're intangible proof that you won) but anyway... The prizes here could be points, a certain amount of them for each competition, depending on the 'grade' (something like points(400$)/4 for Norm and points(2 DVDs)/4 for Noobies where points() is a function that transforms the value entered between brackets into points :p )

And the tasks? Well, let's say you get a scene and you need to texture/illuminate it the best you can, or a blueprint/concept design of something and you have to model and/or texture, or the challenge says "Lamp" and it's up to you to create the best lamp you can imagine, or "Butterfly"... you get the idea.

I'll also include a link to the challenge winners to see what you can get in only a week.

http://www.visualart.ro/forum/showthread.php?t=11201

And if you don't speak romanian (almost certain) here are the themes for the weekly challenges:

Week 1: Vase
Week 2: Armchair
Week 3: Row-Boat
Week 4: Sled
Week 5: The Wheel
Week 6: Lamp
Week 9: Easter Specific object(a small object that represents the comming of spring, good luck, love or something like it, tied with a small red and white rope that simolizez the love and purity of the human heart bla, bla, bla)
Week 10: Texture, Illumination, Render (you recieve the bathroom scene)
Week 11: Glass (Drinking glass)
Week 12: Butterfly
Week 13: HeadPhones
Week 14: Texture (Building)

[admiralbcd]

one week would be too small a time frame, that would scare people off I think, but the general idea of adding different stuff is good. In the end you'd have covered many different LW issues.

[bullet_evader]

Originally posted by mtmckinley The last few challenges have seen very few entries, in my opinion. I just thought I'd ask what you folks would like to see for future challenges? What would get you excited to actually join in if you haven't before?

I did join the challenges before a couple of times, but i actually only finished 2 time or so. Not sure if people like to help me with a challenge I propably don't even finish. I don't have this problem only with the challenges, but also in the W.I.P. Section of this site.

Is it the challenge themes?

Not in my opinion. I like the themes and they are completely new each 2 months. As i said above: Most of the time i don't finish the challenges. For me it would be better if they are smaller. I don't think many of you agree me with that though.

Oh anduuh, I do like this month's theme very much.

You don't like the prizes offered?

I think the prizes are very good. More then i should expect from a site with not that many members active. I also wonder how you can give such prizes each challenge. I agree with cgrein about splitting the moneyprize for normal and n00b.

Two months isn't long enough? (:p)

Two months is long enough to finish the challenges. For me it's hard to keep motivated for 2 months on one project. I'm not sure how to train in that. But any advice is welcome

Something else?

Not really. The biggest problem for me is... myself. If I just could stay motivated to actually finish something. It also would be cool if more members should be active. Their are a lot of non-active members. Maybe try to find a way to make them active on the forum somehow.

[rwhunt99]

I've read the responses here and I agree with many of them.

I am a noob and I haven't tied any challenges because what I see are some excellent work which intimidates me. I really like this latest challenge because it is unique to each person.
I just did my first challenge in another forum and while I had fun I knew I wouldn't win. I've done many tutes and I hope I'm learning from them but I have a problem --mainly real life sucks away most of my free time - I hate that.

I think that from my observations, forum challenges run into cyclical forces of everyday life, the time of year, end of the month deadlines, school finals etc. I think you can try to mix things up in the chalenges; I like the idea of different areas of challenge, no one is equally strong in all areas of 3D and use this to improve yourself.

The prizes are fine, along with just some money, Simply Lightwave has a great catalog of tutes available to use as prizes,

I would like to see the judges give plenty of crits and suggestions to thenonwinners , they are the ones who really need the help it would give them great encouragement and with the numbers not being that large, it might be doable.

[sandman300]

I think the chalenges are pretty good, they could be better if say each run focussed on a specific aspect of animation (modeling, texturing, lighting, endomorphs, rigging, ect.) and then the last chalenge of the year make a long one that will tie together the years chalenges into one maby 5min anim.

To make it even better (with or without the first suggestion), would be more feedback from the mods and other pros. Not just during the comp but after the judging. Critique the final entries. Let us know why the winning entry desirved to win over all the rest. and how the rest could have been better so that the artists can learn from their efforts.

Feedback in general, from anyone, was the main reason that I took part in these comps (OK, so the prizes have gotten better since my first comp) In that first one there was a lot of worthwhile posts, they really helped me a lot. But after that most of the posts were just "good job" or "its coming along nicely". When someone would take time out to show me the error of my ways, I'd return the favor, if I could(in a helpful way :p . After all the point of these chalenges is to push us to be better.

At least, thats my story.

Edit: I was over at the SM forum... can we get a poll too.:attn:

[Hiraghm]

I haven't done the challenge in over a year and a half. Mostly because I've started a new job with odd hours and just don't have the time to spare. However, I do intend to try some challenges in the future, if I can reclaim some of my time.

I think the idea of the newbie/normal categories should remain (maybe call them "amateur" and "pro" or "newbie" and "experienced") I like the idea of simpler competitions lasting a month (I don't think the value of the prizes is the real incentive to participate, though), and I like the idea of competitions with a "story arc"; that is, as someone said, building on earlier contests.

It might help you if you formally defined various categories of 3d art for yourself before proposing future competitions. I think that would help keep the competitions from becoming repetative. Then, when you have a good idea for a competition, but it's the same category as this month, you can just file it away for a couple months.

What would really encourage me would be for the winning entires, in addition to any reward, to appear on the home page of the website. Say, if a lightwave entry won, it would go on the simplylightwave site. Maybe that could be a reward for 2nd and 3rd place too. I don't recall if there's a gallery for previous winners, but there should be. At the very least, I'd like to see a thumbnail of the winners on the home page(s) with links to the actual images.

Just my opinion.

[cgmonk]

You know what might be neat, making an old masters painting into a cg work; a 3D Mona Lisa, a Michelangelo drawing come to life, or even the statue of David. You could keep it in a certain era like the Rennaisance, Baroque, etc...

[Fallenswordsman]

Originally posted by cgmonk You know what might be neat, making an old masters painting into a cg work; a 3D Mona Lisa, a Michelangelo drawing come to life, or even the statue of David. You could keep it in a certain era like the Rennaisance, Baroque, etc...

CGTalk recently ran a competition to make Michelangelo's David:
Archives here:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/...php/f-208.html

Also worth looking at:
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showt...6&page=1&pp=15