[Fallenswordsman]

I see on the front page that we've got around 7500 members. Lets say that around 500 post regularly as a generous estimate. So where the heck are the rest of the 7000? That's an awful lot of Lightwave users out there! Don't any of them have stuff they can show n share? What stops people from making posts once they've joined? They can't all be shy can they?

[R4s1n]

it looks as if the only reason they joined simplylightwave.com was to download Philips outstanding video tutorials i agree with Fallenswordsman it would be really cool if most of them would come back and show us what they have achieved

[Leovenous]

Maybe most of them are Maya people keeping an eye on us.
I am signed up on SimplyMaya so I can spy on them.

[David]

It just never occurs to most people to get involved or contribute something.

I'm sure also, lots of people are just to buys to post much. Maybe joined a long time ago and have forgot about the place et cetera.

David

[Claudio]

I ran a good web site before, and I tell ya.... More you give, less they care...

Also, many will register more than once because they forget login name or password, and feel esier to re-register with other name than retrive the original.

Many just move to diferent paths on life, and others give up with what they call Hobby. Too hard to have fun....

The group you see here more often will go away evetually, others will stay, and much more will come.

The owner and contributors will soffer or did suffered some frustration, but nothing to alarm for. In special because the site is the best in this area.

[Kevin McPoland]

Ouch!!!

Quote: "More you give, less they care..."

I am one of those 'silent' 7000, and kind of get a bit irked that people interpret that as 'I don't care'.

Let me explain...

Over a few years when I have been learning various products, I have subscribed to some sites that offer similar features (downloads, tuts, forums etc).

Many times (and I dare say we have ALL experienced this!), you may have a quick question to ask, and do so, and then get ridiculed as a newbie with instructions such as 'RTFM'. This ends up having the effect that as you go on, you would rather spend longer searching the net hoping that your question has been asked and answered on one of the other forums.

Yes, legit owners can always read the manual, but until the recent online one was released by newtek, searching the book was a pain when you didn't always know what you were looking for (e.g. I wanted to know how to make something appear from invisible to visible. Whilst I now know it's accessed by the E button and then the graph edited, I couldn't find anything in the manual that actually stepped me through it, however when I asked on a forum (not this one!) , I got the default RTFM answer!)

Also, as I recently posted on another topic so won't go into detail here (and yes, the answer was satisfactory in it's honesty, but still frustrating nonetheless), up until now (at least I hope the change is soon!), simply lightwave has a bit of a name with the people I liaise with as a bit slow with anything new.

The quality is superb, and I appreciate that quality takes time to produce, but some of us just want 'down and dirty' quick tips on a variety of subjects, something not given by this site (again not a rant, just helping me answer the post!).

So with the qoute 'More you give, less they care...', reality is Simply lightwave gives quality, at the expense of quantity, so they don't really give 'more'. Many of us I believe would like more of a mix to help us learn quicker.

So getting back, why the lack of interaction by registered people? I believe it is a mix of everything posted (e.g. some just want the tuts and nothing else), and my points that if you don't give the users new stuff, they won't come back (which I know is being addressed! Just an observation point).

But please don't class us all as careless people who are just on the take. Some of us have a history of negative experiences with forums, others just have nothing to say, but certainly from me, I have found this site to be intriguing enough to keep coming back. I am now finding my voice, and look forward to simplylightwave internet site v2...

Thanks for taking the time to read my observations,

Kevin McPoland
kevinmcpoland@breathe.com

[Fallenswordsman]

Hi Kevin

I take on board a lot of your points. I've seen the same happen time and again myself, people try and ask questions and get told to read the manual. Its the size of a telephone directory! And whilst it does provide coverage of the features, I don't think it necessarily aids when it comes down to the nitty gritty. I've known about splines for ages, I read about them in the manual but it took looking at someone elses work with them for me to suddenly say to myself "Wow, you can really do stuff with splines". I think its the same with a lot of the manual, yes you do learn stuff but you don't necessarily know how to use it and that's where forums come in handy. People learn tricks and techniques for using the tools they have at hand and learn how to use them intelligently and this comes from practice, not necessarily from the manual. So I think that the same old "Read the manual" comment can seem a bit harsh - manual explanations can often be all too brief.

In terms of newbies, I would like to think that we do have things to offer to people just stepping out into the world of 3D. I remember first mucking around with Imagine 3D - didn't have forums back then so I was making these godawful models and the manual was so terrible that you couldn't even really grasp more than the basic concepts. I do believe that we are at a much better point now than we have been in the past in terms of tutorials offered to people and availability of information. I would have loved this amount of information and community and encouragement when I was first starting out using 3D software!
I think one of Simply Lightwave's strengths is that members do try to cater for newbies and can give pointers and hints on how to improve things. Its a sort of atmosphere you get with small villages, not many people there but they do help each other out.

Anyway, thanks for posting your observations, Kevin - it was a good insight to read them. Hope to hear your voice here again!

[R4s1n]

i think that "read the manual" quote is one of newtek's faulrs that it has because they have all these question threads that would help a newb. Unfortunately all the experienced Lightwavers just ignore their question and say "read the manual"
This site gives you the best answers by highly qualified lightwaverswho care about other peoples' questions

[Johnny9ball]

I try, and many people here try to help everyone from Newb to Expert. I try and answer questions but I also try and suggest people try and read the manual to. Although for a newb the manual can be a bit of a chore to slog through it still has much much good information.

I have a LW manual .PDF and I keep it on my desktop. I refer to the manual when trying to answer someones question about something that I dont know, or I google it hehe. I use the manual fairly frequently when getting into areas that I havent delved into before. In .PDF form its easyer to get through or get to where you want quickely. Its a snap to search through it for a keyword on a subject, just hit edit then search. The manual is really big(like a phonebook), but in .PDF form its really easy to get through.

Here is a link to the LW.PDF manual I think every LW user should have one on there desktop for referance. Its a great referance for LW thats right there to answer questions right when you have them.

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/downloads/

I will always try and answer someones question directly if I can. If I cant I never just say read the manual. If I beleave someone can learn something more by reading the manual, or a good book on the subject, then I will suggest they read the nessary chapters or books after I answer there question. I will try and provide links to good books that really go in depth in certian subjects.

Some of my favorite book series are the Digital series of books.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

I really like Bill Flemmings books on Photorealism they have some really sound principles, even if they are a bit old.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Specific questions are easy to answer buts sometimes people ask such broad questions, that you have to direct them to good reading material. There is so much good reading out there in 3D. I order books all the time. One thing about 3D is that nearly every subject can have many many books writen on them and still not cover the whole subject such as Modeling, Surfaceing, Animation, Photorealism, Compositing, Facial Animation, Charactor Animation, Cinematography, and many many more subjects. The best place to learn about these and others are books that people publish. I know some people can aford a large libary of books but there is many good websites that offer free reading on the subjects of 3D. Just probbly not as in depth as a good book.

[Claudio]

I'd like to apologize about my comment "more you give, less they care". Maybe because my English it's not good enough for me to put in words what exactly I want to say, and sometimes it's misinterpreted.

I'd never want to instigate bad influences here or no where else. Basically what I meant was that people like the owner(s) and assistants to this site, as well as all the others without advertising, keep the site mostly for love of the art and not for money. So it's necessary others input to keep this alive.

As I had mentioned, I did try and it works for over year, with hours and hours of work to it, for nothing back. Not to me, but to the site to keep it alive.

I hope you all understand my intentions now.

[Kevin McPoland]

Claudio,

I understand now that I may have misinterpreted your comment, that's one of the problems with postings!!

Still, it was a good thing really as it got me to speak up, and since my reply I have started to post my questions on other topics.

So if anything, accept my thanks for making me sit up and start to join in!

Kevin Mcpoland
kevinmcpoland@breathe.com

[Mark]

Jumping back to the mention that Johnny made with the manual - he suggests keeping the PDF version on his desktop. There is also a hefty 80MB download available from Newtek that contains a full hypertext help system for Lightwave - now this I find invaluable since I can simply drop it on one of my desktops as an active item and always have it there ready to refer to (and its indexed and therefore searchable too)...

You can get it via anonymous ftp from here:

ftp://gecko.newtek.com/pub/Patches/L...File_Intel.zip

[Johnny9ball]

Ahh yes I nearly forgot about that one Mark. Thats an invaluable tool for LW users.

[bir]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents (or what currency you have locally).

Similar to Kevin's opinion that many users may have a "fear of RTFM response", I honestly don't want to waste anyone's time. If it's a question I think is probably answered on the net somewhere I will gladly spend the effort to find it. I basically use the forums as a last resort, because I understand that reading the messages and replying (even to say rtfm) takes time and I do not want to waste anyone's time. Besides, in general if I take the time to do a thorough search I generally learn even more than I set out for (as Johnny9ball pointed out).

From my "other life" as a programmer, I know I get rather annoyed quickly reading newsgroup postings that are constantly the same basic questions, where if the user had spent half the time searching google as they did posting they would have the answer already. It is for this reason I am rather slow to start posting to a new group.

And I agree, the PDF help file is awesome, much better than the print version. Although I tend not to use print reference material very often.

As for contributing to the site, I plan to start contributing as soon as I have something worth viewing Working on a rather ambitious (especially considering it is my first) scene right now that if I pull it off will definetly be uploaded for review.

I will probably start asking for some pointers about specific issues as I encounter them, right now I spend most of my time absorbing as much as I can from the tutorials.

<bir />

[Johnny9ball]

Absorb away And Welcome good to have another poster!

Any questions please ask away.